Equality Act 2010

[MaggieB]

I would be interested to know how all your clubs are treating the new Act.

My club's interpretation of the Act disadvantages the ladies and relegates
the Ladies Section to just another section like the Tigers, Foxes and
Rabbits etc.
In fact they have amended their Articles to specifically preclude the Lady
Captain from sitting on the Club Committees (Green, House, Membership) when
previously she did. Their argument is that if the Lady Captain was allowed
to attend then they should also have the Captain of Tigers and Foxes etc.

The ladies however consider that as they are different (different
competitions, different tees, different scorecards, different stroke
indices, different locker rooms etc) they are a "group" with "particular
needs" which under the Equality Act allows clubs to discriminate positively.

The EGU guidance on the Equality Act (page 3) is very clear that clubs may
take positive action when certain groups of people have particular needs and
the golf club is entitled to exercise positive discrimination in favour of
the Ladies.

But..................I would be interested to hear your
experiences/interpretation!

Maggie

[Janet Homer]

Well, there's a surprise! My argument would be that, while the Rabbits,
Foxes etc are called 'sections' they are actually sub-groups of the main
Men's section. (I assume these are all populated by men and not ladies in
saying this). The Ladies, however, are not a similar 'sub section' but a
completely separate group within the club and not able to be represented by
the main Men's committee members as the other 'sub-groups' are in the ways
you outline. The ladies also have their own National and County structures
(at least they do this year...) and thus are again different from the other
sub-groups you mention who are represented at these levels from the men's
committee.

I am quite certain that the act would not intended this kind of
discrimination. I am pretty sure that, within a few years of the EGU/EWGA
merging, we will move to a situation where there is no separate Ladies
Section but administratively, the club is run for its members whatever their
gender with appropriate representation on the various committees from all
members. This does not mean, however, though it is the facile argument used
by men when such equality of administration is proposed, that the golf is
the same and that ladies should play from white tees! One comps and
handicaps committee would oversee the joint fixture list which may, in fact,
look similar to any current fixture list with men and ladies comps run much
as at present.

KLGC is undergoing a big change in the way the Club is run putting it more
on a proper business footing which will actually do away with a Main
Committee altogether, a small management team running the club with
particular regard to finance and and a series of small committees running
house etc and reporting to the new management group. It will be interesting
to see where they see the Lady Captain (me in this case) in regard to all
this. You can imagine that I will not be backwards in coming forwards with
my views!

Just my ten pennyworth.

Love & peace
Janet

[JPW]

Interesting the ways of this equalities act. As the legislation was
enabled any necessary changes should have been in place by October 1st
last year. My own club only had an ‘information’ meeting in late
November so we were open to question (and possible legal action) till
that time and still are to some extent.

Changes that occurred were that our members are neither ladies nor
gents but all simply members, but in two classes named Silver and
Gold. Gold simply means that the course is open to you at any time
other than when the club holds events. Silver means that you may play
Monday to Friday, on Saturdays thirty minutes after the Saturday
competition has cleared the first tee and on Sunday after eleven
o’clock. Fees for Gold members are £1068 and Silver £915. There are no
alternatives either one or the other

There are four other categories of adult members:- Gold aged 25/30
fees £495: Gold aged 31/35 fees £741: Silver aged 25/30 fees £414:
Silver aged 31/35 fees £639.

Of course there are other rates for Juniors and Colts (up to 25) less
than the amounts above but these age related fees are not covered by
the legislation until the year 2012 at the earliest.

There have been a number of male members who have already opted for
Silver and it is felt that there will be many more with a subsequent
loss of revenue. (recovered by an increase in everybodies’ fees).
There is only one lady opting for Gold membership which enables her to
play on Saturday and Sunday earlier. Who she is going to play with,
God only knows, but because she so wishes then a starting time must be
set aside for her. One presumes that she could bring a guest (for the
act covers guests) and pay a full green fee but I don’t believe that
will last for long.

All other ladies have gone for Silver membership and (including an
inflationary amount) all have suffered an increase over all groups
averaging 35% compared to gents inflationary 3%. This was inevitable
but interestingly (and costly) another situation has arisen,,,,the
club previously gave a discount to old fogies like myself when they
reached a mature age and had been a member for a large number of years
and this age bonus has been discontinued with a result that male gold
and silver has increased by 49% ladies silver by 41% and ladies gold
by a swinging 69%.

So much for cost of membership. All members, gold and silver, can
stand for officers of the club but the disproportionate 400/150
numbers of male/female make it unlikely that ladies will be elected
even if they are proposed, but still possible.

Equality because of disability has been a costly off-shoot. We have a
two storey building and so a lift has had to be installed, disabled
toilets built, steps done away with replaced by ramps, car parks set
especially for disabled ticket holders etc.

Competitions will remain largely unaffected with gents playing
Saturday and ladies Thursday (generally) and this is universally
accepted as satisfactory by all to whom I have spoken. Previously,
because of the clay condition of the course, four wheel buggies have
never been allowed, only the small three wheeled type. Now there is
talk that the club may have to provide buggies for hire for disabled
players if and when they visit the club (course), with no regard as to
what damage may be made to the course by indiscriminate use. Of course
all competitions remain as they were with no combination of sexes
other than normal mixed fours. Tees, of course, remain unaltered and
any talk of combination of usage is a nonsense, as any sensible person
knew.

Reading your notes Maggie and Janet I don’t know whether or not what I
have written has helped at all but here is a thought which I believe
may be relevant particularly for you Janet (congratulations by the way)
…..In this new era of equality, male and female alike are members,
each and all, and are afforded the same opportunities within the club
structure. The person who is elected Captain of the club can be male
or female, that is perfectly clear; where then is there a position for
the title LADY Captain? We have done away with Lady membership and so
the term Lady in itself would appear unequal. I believe that the term
will disappear and the position you hold now will ultimately be more
of a head of the section of the club which deals with female matters
and competitions and the Captain of the club (male or female) will
remain the honorary title that it is at the moment. I would presume
that the title President would perhaps follow the same line. This is
not what any reasonable member of a club foresaw a couple of years ago
but one which has been forced upon us all by Harriet Harman, and from
figures that I have shown, has been very costly for ALL females
members.

Ladies, and I use the term as it is meant outside of Parliament, I
hope that I have given a different club’s view of this whole unequal
business. Happy New Year.

JPW

[Baldy Man]

On Sat, 22 Jan 2011 02:11:40 -0800 (PST), JPW

Post by JPW
Interesting the ways of this equalities act. As the legislation was
enabled any necessary changes should have been in place by October 1st
last year. My own club only had an ‘information’ meeting in late
November so we were open to question (and possible legal action) till
that time and still are to some extent.
Changes that occurred were that our members are neither ladies nor
gents but all simply members, but in two classes named Silver and
Gold. Gold simply means that the course is open to you at any time
other than when the club holds events. Silver means that you may play
Monday to Friday, on Saturdays thirty minutes after the Saturday
competition has cleared the first tee and on Sunday after eleven
o’clock. Fees for Gold members are £1068 and Silver £915. There are no
alternatives either one or the other
There are four other categories of adult members:- Gold aged 25/30
Silver aged 31/35 fees £639.
Of course there are other rates for Juniors and Colts (up to 25) less
than the amounts above but these age related fees are not covered by
the legislation until the year 2012 at the earliest.
There have been a number of male members who have already opted for
Silver and it is felt that there will be many more with a subsequent
loss of revenue. (recovered by an increase in everybodies’ fees).
There is only one lady opting for Gold membership which enables her to
play on Saturday and Sunday earlier. Who she is going to play with,
God only knows, but because she so wishes then a starting time must be
set aside for her. One presumes that she could bring a guest (for the
act covers guests) and pay a full green fee but I don’t believe that
will last for long.
All other ladies have gone for Silver membership and (including an
inflationary amount) all have suffered an increase over all groups
averaging 35% compared to gents inflationary 3%. This was inevitable
but interestingly (and costly) another situation has arisen,,,,the
club previously gave a discount to old fogies like myself when they
reached a mature age and had been a member for a large number of years
and this age bonus has been discontinued with a result that male gold
and silver has increased by 49% ladies silver by 41% and ladies gold
by a swinging 69%.
So much for cost of membership. All members, gold and silver, can
stand for officers of the club but the disproportionate 400/150
numbers of male/female make it unlikely that ladies will be elected
even if they are proposed, but still possible.
Equality because of disability has been a costly off-shoot. We have a
two storey building and so a lift has had to be installed, disabled
toilets built, steps done away with replaced by ramps, car parks set
especially for disabled ticket holders etc.
Competitions will remain largely unaffected with gents playing
Saturday and ladies Thursday (generally) and this is universally
accepted as satisfactory by all to whom I have spoken. Previously,
because of the clay condition of the course, four wheel buggies have
never been allowed, only the small three wheeled type. Now there is
talk that the club may have to provide buggies for hire for disabled
players if and when they visit the club (course), with no regard as to
what damage may be made to the course by indiscriminate use. Of course
all competitions remain as they were with no combination of sexes
other than normal mixed fours. Tees, of course, remain unaltered and
any talk of combination of usage is a nonsense, as any sensible person
knew.
Reading your notes Maggie and Janet I don’t know whether or not what I
have written has helped at all but here is a thought which I believe
may be relevant particularly for you Janet (congratulations by the way)
…..In this new era of equality, male and female alike are members,
each and all, and are afforded the same opportunities within the club
structure. The person who is elected Captain of the club can be male
or female, that is perfectly clear; where then is there a position for
the title LADY Captain? We have done away with Lady membership and so
the term Lady in itself would appear unequal. I believe that the term
will disappear and the position you hold now will ultimately be more
of a head of the section of the club which deals with female matters
and competitions and the Captain of the club (male or female) will
remain the honorary title that it is at the moment. I would presume
that the title President would perhaps follow the same line. This is
not what any reasonable member of a club foresaw a couple of years ago
but one which has been forced upon us all by Harriet Harman, and from
figures that I have shown, has been very costly for ALL females
members.
Ladies, and I use the term as it is meant outside of Parliament, I
hope that I have given a different club’s view of this whole unequal
business. Happy New Year.
JPW

As I understand the Act, there can still be a Ladies Captain (but
there must equally be a Mens Captain). The Club Captain is not
automatically the Mens Captain and probably the easiest way to comply
is to appoint both Mens and Ladies Captain to the Committe and
share/duplicate the Club Captains perks.

It is fair to say that all members will be just that, irrespective of
colour, creed, gender, age or whatever. And why not..... a tee time is
a tee time whether it is taken by a man, woman senior or junior. I
would and do argue that Any group getting prefferential membership
rates should defer to those paying full fees. I have no problem with
Seniors paying less if they accept that it will be a 5 day ticket they
get. If Seniors or Ladies want full playing rights then they should
pay full fees. I have yet to hear a good reason why a full fee payer
should subsidise those other groups.

If, as at my club, the membership is overrun by Seniors (I can't
remeber the last time the flag was at full mast!!) due to the
preferential rates then you'll understand why I get ticked off by
tr4ying to find a tee time on a weekend amongst all the geriatrics who
can play all they like Mon-Fri when I am at work earning their
subsidies. You can also see why nothing is done about it because they
hold the balance of power at any vote and will not vote out their
rights.

In your club though it would be legal to offer Ladies a lower and
preferential rate as it is positive discrimination and aiming to
redress the balance of numbers to encourage more lady members. In some
clubs it might even be that you could do the same for non-seniors to
redress that balance too.

[JPW]

I don't disagree with most of what you say, Baldy, only perhaps some
of the last paragraph. You did tend to ignore the details that I
showed giving details from my own club where a male aged 34 could be a
full member, as am I, and pay a sum of £741 when I, aged 78, am paying
£1068. Who's getting the preferential rates there?

Just a little more; four of us "geriatrics", as you put it, won the
competition yesterday against some 150 other members all younger than
myself and it wasn't down to the handicaps for we are all four
similarly handicapped, myself being 12!

Don't be too disparaging when you see the flag at half mast. It
happens! I've been to a funeral on Wednesday and Friday of this week
of old friends. None of us enjoy it and it is very sad for some.

An interesting aside to this Equalities Act. I was sitting having a
pint after playing yesterday afternoon and an old friend came in who
happens to be the President of Cheshire County Golf. He told me that
very shortly it will be announced that the next President of the
English Golf Union is to be a Lady. Now that will surely interest
Maggie and Janet further back in this talk.The EGU and EWGU will more
than likely merge.

[Baldy Man]

On Sun, 23 Jan 2011 07:35:21 -0800 (PST), JPW

Post by JPW
I don't disagree with most of what you say, Baldy, only perhaps some
of the last paragraph. You did tend to ignore the details that I
showed giving details from my own club where a male aged 34 could be a
full member, as am I, and pay a sum of £741 when I, aged 78, am paying
£1068. Who's getting the preferential rates there?
Just a little more; four of us "geriatrics", as you put it, won the
competition yesterday against some 150 other members all younger than
myself and it wasn't down to the handicaps for we are all four
similarly handicapped, myself being 12!
Don't be too disparaging when you see the flag at half mast. It
happens! I've been to a funeral on Wednesday and Friday of this week
of old friends. None of us enjoy it and it is very sad for some.
An interesting aside to this Equalities Act. I was sitting having a
pint after playing yesterday afternoon and an old friend came in who
happens to be the President of Cheshire County Golf. He told me that
very shortly it will be announced that the next President of the
English Golf Union is to be a Lady. Now that will surely interest
Maggie and Janet further back in this talk.The EGU and EWGU will more
than likely merge.

I wholeheartedly agree it is wrong for any group to get preferential
rate so I would sympathise with you in the case stated.

I suspect that the Act will be just like Poll Tax and Home Information
Packs - a damn good idea poorly executed.

I am glad you see that some of what I said disparageingly was tongue
in cheek, particularly the point about the flag. And I know that being
of more advanced years doesn't have to detract from ability. Many
seniors I know may not be long but they make up for it witha deadly
short game. I also admire and encourage them to play for as long as
those tired old bones will allow. I still plan to be playing when I am
eighty - but I don't expect someone else to subsidise my hobby.
(Unless the State Pension could be called a subsidy).

I also applaud the older emebers. There is many a wise head on those
old shoulders and they have a lot to offer clubs and committees. Age
should not be the issue and that is a double edged sword.

[MaggieB]

Hi Pat

Nice to hear that you're still playing and still winning!

Thanks for detailing what has happened at your club as a result of the Act.

I agree that you are now all just members - It does seem unfair however that
the proportion of men to ladies at 400/150 will mean that a lady will
probably never be voted onto the club committees. That doesn't sound like
equality to me!
How will the club know what the ladies requirements are?
I think it's all well and good that we're all equal now but we all know
that's tosh!

Do your Ladies still have a Committee with a Lady Captain and Lady
Secretary?
I think it is essential that the ladies organise their own competitions and
functions as they do have a different expectation of their golfing days out
which the men couldn't even start to comprehend!

I rather think that clubs should adopt what Baldy Man has suggested and vote
for both a Men's Captain and a Ladies Captain onto the Board/Management
Committee and have just a Club Captain with the "honorary title" in the
tradition way as you suggest.

I'm not sure that your club will be able to offer different rates for
different age bands after 2012???

Maggie






"JPW" <***@googlemail.com> wrote in message news:d5e84b41-a489-4b1b-8eec-***@i13g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...


Interesting the ways of this equalities act. As the legislation was
enabled any necessary changes should have been in place by October 1st
last year. My own club only had an ‘information’ meeting in late
November so we were open to question (and possible legal action) till
that time and still are to some extent.

Changes that occurred were that our members are neither ladies nor
gents but all simply members, but in two classes named Silver and
Gold. Gold simply means that the course is open to you at any time
other than when the club holds events. Silver means that you may play
Monday to Friday, on Saturdays thirty minutes after the Saturday
competition has cleared the first tee and on Sunday after eleven
o’clock. Fees for Gold members are £1068 and Silver £915. There are no
alternatives either one or the other

There are four other categories of adult members:- Gold aged 25/30
fees £495: Gold aged 31/35 fees £741: Silver aged 25/30 fees £414:
Silver aged 31/35 fees £639.

Of course there are other rates for Juniors and Colts (up to 25) less
than the amounts above but these age related fees are not covered by
the legislation until the year 2012 at the earliest.

There have been a number of male members who have already opted for
Silver and it is felt that there will be many more with a subsequent
loss of revenue. (recovered by an increase in everybodies’ fees).
There is only one lady opting for Gold membership which enables her to
play on Saturday and Sunday earlier. Who she is going to play with,
God only knows, but because she so wishes then a starting time must be
set aside for her. One presumes that she could bring a guest (for the
act covers guests) and pay a full green fee but I don’t believe that
will last for long.

All other ladies have gone for Silver membership and (including an
inflationary amount) all have suffered an increase over all groups
averaging 35% compared to gents inflationary 3%. This was inevitable
but interestingly (and costly) another situation has arisen,,,,the
club previously gave a discount to old fogies like myself when they
reached a mature age and had been a member for a large number of years
and this age bonus has been discontinued with a result that male gold
and silver has increased by 49% ladies silver by 41% and ladies gold
by a swinging 69%.

So much for cost of membership. All members, gold and silver, can
stand for officers of the club but the disproportionate 400/150
numbers of male/female make it unlikely that ladies will be elected
even if they are proposed, but still possible.

Equality because of disability has been a costly off-shoot. We have a
two storey building and so a lift has had to be installed, disabled
toilets built, steps done away with replaced by ramps, car parks set
especially for disabled ticket holders etc.

Competitions will remain largely unaffected with gents playing
Saturday and ladies Thursday (generally) and this is universally
accepted as satisfactory by all to whom I have spoken. Previously,
because of the clay condition of the course, four wheel buggies have
never been allowed, only the small three wheeled type. Now there is
talk that the club may have to provide buggies for hire for disabled
players if and when they visit the club (course), with no regard as to
what damage may be made to the course by indiscriminate use. Of course
all competitions remain as they were with no combination of sexes
other than normal mixed fours. Tees, of course, remain unaltered and
any talk of combination of usage is a nonsense, as any sensible person
knew.

Reading your notes Maggie and Janet I don’t know whether or not what I
have written has helped at all but here is a thought which I believe
may be relevant particularly for you Janet (congratulations by the way)
…..In this new era of equality, male and female alike are members,
each and all, and are afforded the same opportunities within the club
structure. The person who is elected Captain of the club can be male
or female, that is perfectly clear; where then is there a position for
the title LADY Captain? We have done away with Lady membership and so
the term Lady in itself would appear unequal. I believe that the term
will disappear and the position you hold now will ultimately be more
of a head of the section of the club which deals with female matters
and competitions and the Captain of the club (male or female) will
remain the honorary title that it is at the moment. I would presume
that the title President would perhaps follow the same line. This is
not what any reasonable member of a club foresaw a couple of years ago
but one which has been forced upon us all by Harriet Harman, and from
figures that I have shown, has been very costly for ALL females
members.

Ladies, and I use the term as it is meant outside of Parliament, I
hope that I have given a different club’s view of this whole unequal
business. Happy New Year.

JPW

[JPW]

Post by MaggieB
Hi Pat
Nice to hear that you're still playing and still winning!
Thanks for detailing what has happened at your club as a result of the Act.
I agree that you are now all just members - It does seem unfair however that
the proportion of men to ladies at 400/150 will mean that a lady will
probably never be voted onto the club committees. That doesn't sound like
equality to me!

It isn't equality, Maggie, but it is not for the want of
trying.Our club has offered for the past couple of years a taster for
ladies who want to become members. It consisted of membership for
approx six months during the playing season at a more than competitive
rate with a view to staying on and becoming members. There were few
takers.
For several years now ladies have been on club committees, not by
voting on, but by co-opting. Now they will have to be proposed,
seconded and voted for because "we are all members" At the AGM there
is always a preponderance of men through years of habit. So it would
appear that if the ladies want equality then they will have to get out
and vote for each other. We will see at the AGM in March and I will
post a resumee.

Post by MaggieB
How will the club know what the ladies requirements are?
I think it's all well and good that we're all equal now but we all know
that's tosh!
Do your Ladies still have a Committee with a Lady Captain and Lady
Secretary?

Yes and Yes but it is still in its infancy and it may well
change.

Post by MaggieB
I think it is essential that the ladies organise their own competitions and
functions as they do have a different expectation of their golfing days out
which the men couldn't even start to comprehend!

Absolutely correct. They could even conduct their own rules
seminars. I'm ducking when and if the reply comes through.

Post by MaggieB
I rather think that clubs should adopt what Baldy Man has suggested and vote
for both a Men's Captain and a Ladies Captain onto the Board/Management
Committee and have just a Club Captain with the "honorary title" in the
tradition way as you suggest.
I'm not sure that your club will be able to offer different rates for
different age bands after 2012???

If that is enacted however will Junior golf survive? There
must be a lot of thought before age is introduced. Do you know that
the deadline for age is May 2012. In April 2012 I will be eighty (God
forbid) and I would expect, as all of my forebearers, to be given life
membership. If I miss out I'll set fire to the club!!!!!!!!!!! Or
rather to Harriet!

To you, Baldy, nice to talk to you. A little true story.
Two summers ago I teamed up with a 6ft 4in 18 stone handsome guy to
have a game at the club. He hit the ball so far it was out of my
sight. Our 6th hole is par 5 565 yards long and he was on with a
drive and 4 iron. He was such a nice guy and we had a good chat too.
At the seventh I had a birdie 2 and walking up asked him what he did
for a living. He told me that he was a 747 Captain on long haul. I
discovered later that his salary was in excess of £100,000. I said
that he should join the club and offered to propose him if he wished.
He then told me that he had been a member for eighteen months and I
had not met him. The purpose of this tale is to stress that he was a
far better golfer than I, having everything a young man would want,
including looks, and he was on our 31/35 reduced membership.(Just
another little dig at you subsidising the vets) :-)

JPW

[Janet Homer]

Our club has been 'equal' since moving to its new (current) location in
1992. This means that ladies, men and seniors (also always men) have always
paid in accordance with the same fee structure, ie, full membership, country
membership, juniors etc. They have also always had a vote.

However this does not mean that they (in golfing terms) are treated equally,
that is, their game is given the same respect as the men. Ladies tees, for
example come way down the list for improvement while the men's tees have
been rebuilt and refurbished extensively in the time I have been a member
(12 years).

The Ladies Captain is on the Main Committee as a right but not the Lady
Vice-Captain, though the men's (sorry, Club's- maybe) vice captain, is. I
maintain that, coming onto the committee 'cold' at the start of the L.C.
year it is extremely difficult to make a good contribution as there is time
needed to get to know the ways of the committee and the personalities
involved. By the time one's feet are under the table the year is up!
However, we have also had a Lady as Club President (a three year
appointment), and two ladies directly elected to the Committee, certainly
their election was aided by encouraging a good turn out of ladies at the
AGM but they were there and I think if there were only ne Committee for all
the membership, at our Club, ladies do have a good chance of being elected.

However, they will always be in a minority as membership and as
representatives,
so, with current prevailing attitudes to ladies golf not that much changed
in a hundred years
it is hard to see that in reality they will get an equal say or that the
ladies game will be on an
equal footing with the men.

It is virtually certain that the EGU and EWGA will merge at the end of this
year and yes,
the first President is to be a woman. There is to be a 'roadshow' in the
summer when every
county will take the proposals out to the county's clubs and there will be a
vote after this
on the merger. It is interesting (to me) that the EGU are having no such
vote at Club level
an indication, (also to me), that they do not see anything much changing for
the men in such a merger!

I think it is worth pointing out that many women do not want to be any more
involved in the Club than
they are at present and prefer to have the women's section separate. I would
just like to feel that we were valued
equally as members with the men. The men say that we are, but the
impression we get is that they value the fact
that we willingly do a lot of jobs that the men do not do and would
otherwise have to do or pay for someone
else to do. This last also applies to the Seniors, but the difference for
them is that they have, at least in their time,
been younger members of men's sections. I smiled when a couple of months
back Chris came home one day
and said he felt that 'he and his mates were invisible today at the club' -
all members of the Seniors.
I said, yes, welcome to the world of Section membership. He noticed the
difference from when he was 'one of the men'
Sorry for the rather long ramble.

Love & peace
Janet

[JohnH]

Janet,

You state that Ladies are a minority in your club, as they are in most
clubs, mine having roughly a 1 in 5 ratio to men.
Would it not be appropriate that Ladies tees which only get 20% of the
use have 5 times less work done on them?

John

[Sam]

Post by JohnH
Janet,
You state that Ladies are a minority in your club, as they are in most
clubs, mine having roughly a 1 in 5 ratio to men.
Would it not be appropriate that Ladies tees which only get 20% of the
use have 5 times less work done on them?
John

Ah but they are only 1/3rd the size so surely they should have 3/5ths of the
work?
And there again ladies only do 50% of hte damage to tees that men do so
maybe thats 3/10ths or something?!
Tricky thing this equality stuff :-)

[Janet Homer]

Ho! Ho!

What you are talking about is maintenance, I was referring to development
work. New tees have been built for men on several holes since I have been a
member at KLGC. Repeated requests for the last five or six years for two of
our tees to be levelled have been completely ignored and they are getting
steadily worse. All I am saying is that it would be nice to have tees that
are equivalently playable to those the men use. KLGC purports to be a
county standard course and this year is hosting the EWGA Northern regional
medal finals - some 150 women plus caddies from six counties will be playing
off these tees. I would have thought that pride in the Club and its
appearance around the north of England would be a motivator to consider
these matters, but apparently not!

As to maintenance work, surely it is important to maintain all tees to the
same standard and some tees, for a variety of reasons including usage and
exposure to the elements, will take more maintenance than others. It is not
whether they are used by one set of players or another, be they men, women
seniors or juniors.

Love & peace
Janet

[MaggieB]

Hi Janet

Have you seen page 7 in the Telegraph today??!

If not see the following link -
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/8320250/Lady-golfers-unhappy-about-law-to-end-sex-discrimination.html

It doesn't actually cover the issue that we have at NGC at the moment which
is allowing the Lady Captain or her selected representative to attend
Committee meetings by right as we have totally different requirements and
needs to the men.

The Act does allow positive discrimination in this case and legal advice
indicates that we should have a voice on all the Committees. Although the
Board have allowed The Lady Captain to attend on an informal basis (not
voting) unfortunately they will not support a change in the Articles to
reflect this. C'est la vie!!!

I've thrown in the towel!!

Maggie

[Janet Homer]

Hi Maggie

KLGC have now got a new Board as we switched from being an unincorporated
members' club to a club limited by guarantee last month. Reluctantly, urged
to do so by the ladies, I stood for the Board and was voted on. So, I also
brought to their attention the fact that the Articles say that the Club
Captain is a director by right. I pointed out that, as in practice the
procedure for electing the Club Captain means that it will be a woman when
hell freezes over, it will not be lawful to do this if there is no
equivalent place for the Lady Captain. I was shouted down of course. So I
produced the relevant portions of he document written by the E.G.U. which
illustrates various points about the Act and where Clubs need to look to
their laurels. I am presenting a paper to them about the Act and
recommending actions at the next Board meeting - so, we shall see....

Also, women do not 'have to pay the same as men'. The Club is quite at
liberty to introduce a membership category that is for people who do not
want to play other than in the week. The E.G.U. document also points out in
this regard that this does not necessarily mean that those taking up this or
any other alternative membership category should not have a vote as their
input may be valuable in learning something about the future of the golf
business. The whole point is that golf and golf clubs today are in crisis
and if heads are buried in the sand and no change is forthcoming, many clubs
will find themselves without members and in financial crisis - many already
are.

I don't blame you for throwing in the towel, but s/he who laughs
last..........

Love & peace
Janet

[JohnT]

Post by MaggieB
I would be interested to know how all your clubs are treating the new Act.
My club's interpretation of the Act disadvantages the ladies and relegates
the Ladies Section to just another section like the Tigers, Foxes and
Rabbits etc.
In fact they have amended their Articles to specifically preclude the Lady
Captain from sitting on the Club Committees (Green, House, Membership) when
previously she did. Their argument is that if the Lady Captain was allowed
to attend then they should also have the Captain of Tigers and Foxes etc.
The ladies however consider that as they are different (different
competitions, different tees, different scorecards, different stroke
indices, different locker rooms etc) they are a "group" with "particular
needs" which under the Equality Act allows clubs to discriminate positively.
The EGU guidance on the Equality Act (page 3) is very clear that clubs may
take positive action when certain groups of people have particular needs and
the golf club is entitled to exercise positive discrimination in favour of
the Ladies.
But..................I would be interested to hear your
experiences/interpretation!
Maggie

Hi Maggie,

Long time.

I thought that I would share a couple of experiences.

In Ireland the equality aspect kicked in a few years ago. At Lahinch,
the setup is that the club is governed by a mixed sex Council. The
Council has 12 members with 3 rotating off each year. There is a Men's
Committee headed by the Men's Captain. Similarly there is Ladies'
Committee headed by the Ladies Captain. Each is responsible for their
respective competitions and handicap maintenance. The Council runs
everything else.

The Men's and Ladies' sections have their own A.G.M.. The Men's
Committee nominates two candidates for Council and the Ladies one.
Nominations can be made from outside of the Committees, but this
rarely happens and is never sucessful. Members tend to vote in favour
of all Committee motions. The Council chair alternates annually
between the Men's and Ladies Captains.

Under this setup, because there is a political will to do so ladies
and men have an even handed share of responsibilities. I was on
Council for four years and never encountered an issue under discussion
that had a male/female split. This I believe was because after the
first couple of years, nominations for Council from both sides became
much less of a popularity contest, and more of let's put up the most
competent candidate.

These days I am a director of the Golf Association of Ontario. That
board is also mixed sex and the organization is a result of a merger
ten years ago of the respective sex based ones. After my first year on
the board, I see no issues with the setup. Last year's President was a
lady - a very competent lady. One amusing incident from this year.
Golf became a probationary sport at the Ontario Summer Games. The GAO
ran the event, the competitors were split boys and girls 50/50. The
Sports Ministry critique of our performance noted that we did not have
a 50/50 split in Rules Officials. In 2011 the GAO is reviving a
southpaw tournament. At the Rules meeting I asked if all the Rules
Officials had to be left-handed also.

Finally, This past weekend the Royal Canadian Golf Association voted
in its first lady President. See:

http://www.rcga.org/news_details.aspx?ID=2437

Cheers

JohnT
revived