A Genuine golf question

[JPW]

I haven't posted for ages so here is a problem to help solve.

At my club we have a small stream only some one metre wide which
crosses both the first and ninth holes. From the onset of the club
(120 years) the stream has rumbled at 90 degrees to the fairway at the
foot of a gorge some 8 metres deep and some 20 metres wide. Over the
years the banks have fallen away in places and it has become generally
untidy. Of course it is a water hazard and the extremes of the hazard
have always been marked at the top of the banks where they meet the
fairway.

This winter the club has engaged contractors to clear out the banks
and sculptor them to a nice even slope everywhere. They have been
turfed with very good quality slow growing turf and the resulting area
is so much transformed to be a lovely grassed sloping area down to the
stream. It looks a treat!!! During the winter the whole area has been
played as Compulsory GUR for obvious reasons.The stream itself has
been completely along its length timber banked and contained within a
one metre channel. Tidy and easier to maintain.

I now come to my point. Where should the extremities of the hazard be
marked? Bear in mind that a badly hit second shot will disappear down
the slope into the stream or maybe not go into the stream or maybe
carry to the far side. Whatever it does the player won't be able to
see what is the result.

Before answering I quote Defintion 33-2a/4 which says that "the lines
and/or stakes defining the hazard should be placed along the NATURAL
limits of the hazard where the ground breaks down to form the
depression containing the water." As the whole area has been just
'manufactured' there are no NATURAL limits where the ground breaks
down to form the hazard.

It has caused a bit of discussion. I know which I prefer but am saying
nothing. Yet!!!

Anyone care to hazard an opinion?

Pat

[MaggieB]

Post by JPW
I haven't posted for ages so here is a problem to help solve.
At my club we have a small stream only some one metre wide which
crosses both the first and ninth holes. From the onset of the club
(120 years) the stream has rumbled at 90 degrees to the fairway at the
foot of a gorge some 8 metres deep and some 20 metres wide. Over the
years the banks have fallen away in places and it has become generally
untidy. Of course it is a water hazard and the extremes of the hazard
have always been marked at the top of the banks where they meet the
fairway.
This winter the club has engaged contractors to clear out the banks
and sculptor them to a nice even slope everywhere. They have been
turfed with very good quality slow growing turf and the resulting area
is so much transformed to be a lovely grassed sloping area down to the
stream. It looks a treat!!! During the winter the whole area has been
played as Compulsory GUR for obvious reasons.The stream itself has
been completely along its length timber banked and contained within a
one metre channel. Tidy and easier to maintain.
I now come to my point. Where should the extremities of the hazard be
marked? Bear in mind that a badly hit second shot will disappear down
the slope into the stream or maybe not go into the stream or maybe
carry to the far side. Whatever it does the player won't be able to
see what is the result.
Before answering I quote Defintion 33-2a/4 which says that "the lines
and/or stakes defining the hazard should be placed along the NATURAL
limits of the hazard where the ground breaks down to form the
depression containing the water." As the whole area has been just
'manufactured' there are no NATURAL limits where the ground breaks
down to form the hazard.
It has caused a bit of discussion. I know which I prefer but am saying
nothing. Yet!!!
Anyone care to hazard an opinion?
Pat

Hi Pat

Glad you are well - I'm still here!!

Hope the following helps!

We have a similar problem at out club - see the following from the R & A
Guidance on Running a Competition -

http://www.randa.org/~/media/RandA/Downloads%20and%20Free%20Publications/Guidance%20On%20Running%20A%20Competition.ashx
In general, lines or stakes defining the margins of a water hazard should be
placed as nearly as

possible along the natural limits of the hazard, i.e. where the ground
breaks down to form the

depression containing the water. This means that sloping banks will be
included within the

margins of the hazard. However, if, for example, there is a large bush just
outside the natural

margin of the water hazard, it is suggested that the bush be included within
the hazard margins.

Otherwise, a player whose ball entered the hazard in this area may not have
a reasonable spot

at which to drop.

It is especially important in the case of lateral water hazards to ensure
that the sloping banks of

the hazard are included within the margins so that a player dropping a ball
within two clublengths

of the hazard margin will be dropping on ground from which he will have a
reasonable

opportunity to make a stroke. Where the margins are situated a reasonable
distance away

from the water itself and there is a likelihood that a player's ball could
be playable on the bank

of the hazard, it is essential that the hazard is well marked so that the
player realises that his

ball is in a hazard and does not unwittingly breach Rule 13-4.

[Paul Schmitz-Josten]

Post by JPW
I now come to my point. Where should the extremities of the hazard be
marked? Bear in mind that a badly hit second shot will disappear down
the slope into the stream or maybe not go into the stream or maybe
carry to the far side. Whatever it does the player won't be able to
see what is the result.
Before answering I quote Defintion 33-2a/4 which says that "the lines
and/or stakes defining the hazard should be placed along the NATURAL
limits of the hazard where the ground breaks down to form the
depression containing the water." As the whole area has been just
'manufactured' there are no NATURAL limits where the ground breaks
down to form the hazard.

I'd let the hazard begin where the ground breaks, natural or not.

This may be the clearest indication of where trouble begins. If you let
the border descend, the yellow sticks will descend, too, into invisiblity.

I always thought that the ruling in the definition was made to indicate
for the player a zone where balls most likely will not roll into the
hazard (again, natural slope or not).

Disclaimer: I have never been involved into course signposting.

Ciao,

Paul