Discussion:
Placing the ball
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AS
2011-07-31 09:40:32 UTC
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At what point in the 'placing the ball' routine on the green does the
ball become 'live' and untouchable?

AS
Rog
2011-07-31 23:06:30 UTC
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Post by AS
At what point in the 'placing the ball' routine on the green does the
ball become 'live' and untouchable?
AS
As a wild uneducated guess, don't quote me on this or ban me from the
Club.
Removing the marker?
Mark Myers
2011-08-01 11:35:33 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 31 Jul 2011 23:06:30 +0000 (UTC), Rog said...
Post by Rog
Post by AS
At what point in the 'placing the ball' routine on the green does the
ball become 'live' and untouchable?
AS
As a wild uneducated guess, don't quote me on this or ban me from the
Club.
Removing the marker?
I agree. This decision I've quoted below isn't a direct answer to the
question, but does indicate that there is no penalty for fumbling, until
the marker has been removed.


from http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Rules-and-Decisions/

Decision 20-3a/1
Ball Moved in Removing Ball-Marker After Replacing Ball
Q. A player replaces his ball under a Rule and, in the act of removing
the object marking its position, accidentally moves the ball. What is
the ruling?

A. Removal of the ball-marker is part of the replacement process.
Accordingly, under Rule 20-3a, no penalty is incurred, and the ball must
be replaced.
--
Mark Myers
usenet at mcm2007 dot plus dot com
JPW
2011-08-02 18:08:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Myers
On Sun, 31 Jul 2011 23:06:30 +0000 (UTC), Rog said...
Post by Rog
Post by AS
At what point in the 'placing the ball' routine on the green does the
ball become 'live' and untouchable?
AS
As a wild uneducated guess, don't quote me on this or ban me from the
Club.
Removing the marker?
I agree. This decision I've quoted below isn't a direct answer to the
question, but does indicate that there is no penalty for fumbling, until
the marker has been removed.
fromhttp://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Rules-and-Decisions/
Decision 20-3a/1
Ball Moved in Removing Ball-Marker After Replacing Ball
Q. A player replaces his ball under a Rule and, in the act of removing
the object marking its position, accidentally moves the ball. What is
the ruling?
A. Removal of the ball-marker is part of the replacement process.
Accordingly, under Rule 20-3a, no penalty is incurred, and the ball must
be replaced.
--
Mark Myers
usenet at mcm2007 dot plus dot com
As in most areas of golf rules there is always a "not mecessarily".

In this instance the answer to Decision 20-4/1 states the following...
"Under Rule 20-4 a ball is in play when it is replaced, whether or not
the object used to mark its position has been removed.
Thus once the ball is on the green and a gust of wind moves it then
the ball
is played from the new position.
During a stroke a marker may be left on the ground and if the ball is
moved at
address then a penalty is incurred.
The questioner uses an unfortunate word "untouchable". A ball on the
green
is never untouchable for it may be remarked, relifted and replaced. I
do know
what you mean though :-)

JPW
JPW
2011-08-04 07:58:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Myers
On Sun, 31 Jul 2011 23:06:30 +0000 (UTC), Rog said...
Post by Rog
Post by AS
At what point in the 'placing the ball' routine on the green does the
ball become 'live' and untouchable?
AS
As a wild uneducated guess, don't quote me on this or ban me from the
Club.
Removing the marker?
I agree. This decision I've quoted below isn't a direct answer to the
question, but does indicate that there is no penalty for fumbling, until
the marker has been removed.
fromhttp://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Rules-and-Decisions/
Decision 20-3a/1
Ball Moved in Removing Ball-Marker After Replacing Ball
Q. A player replaces his ball under a Rule and, in the act of removing
the object marking its position, accidentally moves the ball. What is
the ruling?
A. Removal of the ball-marker is part of the replacement process.
Accordingly, under Rule 20-3a, no penalty is incurred, and the ball must
be replaced.
--
Mark Myers
usenet at mcm2007 dot plus dot com
fffff
JPW
2011-08-04 08:08:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Myers
On Sun, 31 Jul 2011 23:06:30 +0000 (UTC), Rog said...
Post by Rog
Post by AS
At what point in the 'placing the ball' routine on the green does the
ball become 'live' and untouchable?
AS
As a wild uneducated guess, don't quote me on this or ban me from the
Club.
Removing the marker?
I agree. This decision I've quoted below isn't a direct answer to the
question, but does indicate that there is no penalty for fumbling, until
the marker has been removed.
fromhttp://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Rules-and-Decisions/
Decision 20-3a/1
Ball Moved in Removing Ball-Marker After Replacing Ball
Q. A player replaces his ball under a Rule and, in the act of removing
the object marking its position, accidentally moves the ball. What is
the ruling?
A. Removal of the ball-marker is part of the replacement process.
Accordingly, under Rule 20-3a, no penalty is incurred, and the ball must
be replaced.
--
Mark Myers
usenet at mcm2007 dot plus dot com
wwww
johnty
2011-08-04 18:54:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rog
Post by AS
At what point in the 'placing the ball' routine on the green does the
ball become 'live' and untouchable?
AS
As a wild uneducated guess, don't quote me on this or ban me from the
Club.
Removing the marker?
No. As soon as it is placed; whether the marker remains in place or
not is of no relevance.

Rule 20-4
johnty
2011-08-04 18:58:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rog
Post by AS
At what point in the 'placing the ball' routine on the green does the
ball become 'live' and untouchable?
AS
As a wild uneducated guess, don't quote me on this or ban me from the
Club.
Removing the marker?
Sorry, to qualify my previous note -

The ball is in play (what AS probably means by 'live') as soon as
it's placed. The 'untouchable' bit occurs when the marker is
removed. If the marker is not removed the ball remains marked and can
therefore be re-lifted or adjusted.
johnty
2011-08-05 09:08:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rog
Post by AS
At what point in the 'placing the ball' routine on the green does the
ball become 'live' and untouchable?
AS
As a wild uneducated guess, don't quote me on this or ban me from the
Club.
Removing the marker?
'Live' : The ball is in play as soon as it is placed. Rule 20-4.
Removal or not of the marker does not change that status.

'Untouchable': However, if the marker is left in place, the ball
remains marked and can thus be lifted or rotated without penalty.
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