matchplay scoring

[Dave Robinson]

Does a hole need to be "claimed" or the score "declared" after a hole for it
to count, before teeing off the next hole?

Playing a social game today, stood on the 9th tee, I thought (as did my two
opponents) that my partner and I were 2 up. My partner pointed out that I
had a shot on the 6th which meant that a hole I we halved was in fact a win
for me - but at the time it wasn't "claimed". Stood on the 9th tee, were we
2 up or 3 up?

Dave

[Mark Myers]

On Sun, 4 Jul 2010 20:20:01 +0100, Dave Robinson said...

Post by Dave Robinson
Does a hole need to be "claimed" or the score "declared" after a hole for it
to count, before teeing off the next hole?

Well, I may be wrong about all of this, but no, I don't believe so. The
score is a matter of fact, which doesn't have to be re-stated on every
tee. Although it's a good idea to, IMO.

Post by Dave Robinson
Playing a social game today, stood on the 9th tee, I thought (as did my two
opponents) that my partner and I were 2 up. My partner pointed out that I
had a shot on the 6th which meant that a hole I we halved was in fact a win
for me - but at the time it wasn't "claimed". Stood on the 9th tee, were we
2 up or 3 up?

As I understand it, a claim is made *so that it can be put to the
committee* only when there is doubt or disagreement about how to
proceed.

As I see your situation, there was no doubt at all. You and your oppos
were mistaken about your shot situation, while your partner was not. He
knew the correct state of the match all along. There is no suggestion of
wrong information exchanged, so no wrong doing, but the state of the
match is a matter of fact and is not affected by three of you having bad
memories.

I've had a look through the decisions and the only way I can see that
you could have halved the 6th would be if you'd stated so at the time
and your partner had not said anything before teeing off at the 7th.
However as I understand it no-one said anything at all about the score
until the 9th.

This is all from rule 2 and its decisions, by the way.

[Dave Robinson]

Thanks Mark.

To be honest I can't remember if anything was said as we walked off the 6th,
to the 7th tee.

All this is pretty unimportant as it was only a "friendly" match anyway -
nothing at stake and the end result was 2-up after 18 - so the result was
unaffected (though the opponents would always claim that the outcome could
have been different if the "half" had stood instead of the "win" for me and
my partner on the 6th.

No harm done anyway - I just thought it was an interesting question.

Dave

[Paul Schmitz-Josten]

Post by Dave Robinson
To be honest I can't remember if anything was said as we walked off the 6th,
to the 7th tee.

There must have been a (silent?) agreement on the number of strokes made by
the players, wasn't it?

Post by Dave Robinson
All this is pretty unimportant as it was only a "friendly" match anyway -
nothing at stake and the end result was 2-up after 18 - so the result was
unaffected (though the opponents would always claim that the outcome could
have been different if the "half" had stood instead of the "win" for me and
my partner on the 6th.

I agree to Mark: No claim was made, no hole given as a half. From the
scores the results of the holes and of the match may be calculated. This is
according to RoG 2-1:

|a hole is won by the Side that holes its ball in the fewer strokes. In a
|handicap match, the lower net score wins the hole.

No claim neccessary to win a hole, IMNSHO.
RoG 2-5 reserves claims for doubts and disputes.

One might dispute if an agreement to an interim result of the holes 7 or 8
would be a possible implicit concession of hole #6 - but no, a hole cannot
be conceded after it's conclusion (RoG 2-4):
|A player may concede a hole at any time prior to the start or conclusion of
|that hole.

Ciao,

Paul

[Andy Neal]

Dave

I played in a serious match where a similar situation occurred. We had not
taken a shot on a hole where we were entitled to - it was my partners home
course and he claimed that they had recently changed the indexes around so
he forgot! - and we had halved the hole. Bozo - especially as he was keeping
the score!
My partner realized his error 2 holes later and tried to claim the hole but
to no effect. Our opponents were adamant that as we had not claimed the shot
before we had teed off on the next hole it was basically TS and the hole
result should stand. We ended up losing only 1 down despite my partner going
whingey, whiney and sulky for the rest of the match!
Decision 2-5/9 is the closest I could find but have no problem being proved
wrong!
--
Andy Neal
Please remove the GREENCARD when you reply

Post by Dave Robinson
Does a hole need to be "claimed" or the score "declared" after a hole for
it to count, before teeing off the next hole?
Playing a social game today, stood on the 9th tee, I thought (as did my
two opponents) that my partner and I were 2 up. My partner pointed out
that I had a shot on the 6th which meant that a hole I we halved was in
fact a win for me - but at the time it wasn't "claimed". Stood on the 9th
tee, were we 2 up or 3 up?
Dave

[Mark Myers]

On Mon, 5 Jul 2010 10:23:23 -0400, Andy Neal said...

Post by Andy Neal
Decision 2-5/9 is the closest I could find but have no problem being proved
wrong!

I agree with you Andy, but I think your situation wasn't the same as
Dave's. You verbally agreed the result (forgetting your shots) before
you tee'd off at the next hole. As Dave recounts his experience, that
didn't happen. I can't find a decision that exactly fits Dave's
scenario.

So, if you walk away from the hole and don't say a word, surely only the
factual score can stand, until someone questions it sometime later. Then
it has to be resolved before the next tee, which in Dave's case it was.

[Dave Robinson]

On reflection, though I can't remember the exact words used, I suspect that
3 of us may have stated (questioningly?) that the hole was halved. Maybe our
opponents have a case after all!

[Mark Myers]

On Mon, 5 Jul 2010 16:19:34 +0100, Dave Robinson said...

Post by Dave Robinson
On reflection, though I can't remember the exact words used, I suspect that
3 of us may have stated (questioningly?) that the hole was halved. Maybe our
opponents have a case after all!

Sounds like they do :-)

It was an interesting question though. I had no idea until I looked it
up.

[Paul Schmitz-Josten]

Post by Andy Neal
I played in a serious match where a similar situation occurred. We had not
taken a shot on a hole where we were entitled to - it was my partners home
course and he claimed that they had recently changed the indexes around so
he forgot! - and we had halved the hole. Bozo - especially as he was keeping
the score!
My partner realized his error 2 holes later and tried to claim the hole but
to no effect. Our opponents were adamant that as we had not claimed the shot
before we had teed off on the next hole it was basically TS and the hole
result should stand.

Correct result, wrong solution IMHO:

The (net) result stands from the scores (RoG 1-2) and no claim is
neccessary for the shot which you get. Only the fact that you conceded to
halve the hole stands against you...

Ciao,

Paul